Wolfe vs. Gordon: Christian Nationalism- The Continuing Conversation

In today’s episode, Rev. Gordon invites Stephen Wolfe to the show. Stephen is the author of the controversial and often criticized book, The Case For Christian Nationalism. He has gained a substantial following on social media for his frank and sometimes harsh statements, and has received criticism for his opinions by many in the Reformed community. Stephen’s name was mentioned during the AGR interview with Doug Wilson and Jared Longshore, and this interview is Stephen and Chris’s opportunity to clear the air and attempt to gain a mutual understanding of each other’s viewpoints. The discussion covers kinism, race, and Stephen's view of what a Christian nation should look like and the role the civil magistrate should play in it. They talk about the difference between being earthly-minded and heavenly-minded and how Christians are to balance the two as they sojourn through the wilderness. Don’t miss this important conversation that works toward open communication and the glorification of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.


Chapters
00:00 - Intro to Stephen Wolfe
01:00 - Wolfe’s Journey
03:00 - Reaction To The Doug Wilson Debate
04:25 - “Concern” with Wolfe’s Book
05:50 - How Is “Nationalist” Christian?
09:13 - Wolfe’s Definition Of Christian Nationalism
10:30 - What About Paul Miller’s Definition?
12:00 - David VanDrunen Perspective
15:21 - The Christian Family Connection
16:20 - A Christian Nation
19:38 - Blood & Soil Nationalism
18:20 - The Christian Nationalist Shift
21:05 - The Concept Of Blood & Soil
23:50 - God Called Abraham Out Of His Land
25:42 - The Generational Bind
27:32 - Defining Heavenly Minded
30:00 - Is Suffering Good?
32:00 - Exiled
34:50 - The New Testament Paradigm
37:40 - Common Grace & Society
43:00 - Kuyper & Political Theory
47:10 - Mixed Syllogism
50:40 - The Natural Knowledge Of God
55:00 - Principle Or Prudence
59:00 - The Government’s Role
1:02:00 - The American Project
1:04:00 - Old School Laws
1:06:00 - The Race Trigger
1:08:00 - What Do You Do With Atheists?
1:10:00 - Which Church Gets Promoted?
1:12:00 - Creating A Christian Culture
1:15:00 - Enforced Religion & Nominalism
1:17:00 - Founding Fathers
1:18:50 - Bibles In Schools
1:20:00 - Liberal Oppression?
1:23:00 - What Is Good?
1:26:30 - Rugged Masculinity
1:27:30 - Nations & Blood Relations
1:30:45 - Ethic Unity vs. Racial Purity
1:34:00 - Nation States
1:36:00 - Kinism
1:41:00 - We Are One In Jesus Christ
1:44:00 - We Are The Weird Ones
1:46:00 - Equally Yoked
1:49:00 - Christ Has Torn Down The Walls
1:52:25 - Is Change Good?
1:55:00 - Two Kingdoms
1:57:20 - The Antioch Declaration
2:02:10 - The Nazi Worry
2:04:15 - James White’s Response
2:05:10 - What Are We Actually Doing?
2:06:00 - The Underdog Struggle
2:07:45 - Twitter Issues
2:10:20 - The Kingdom Of God
2:12:00 - Kingdom Confusion
2:14:42 - Grace Swallows Up Nature
2:17:00 - Wolfe On Political Power
2:20:00 - Be Of Good Cheer
2:21:00 - Jesus & Politics
2:22:00 - What Really Matters

Stephen Wolfe completed his PhD in political philosophy at LSU in 2020. He is a member of the James Madison Society at Princeton University.

He has several years of teaching experience, including college-level and online teaching, and has published many academic and popular articles. He is the author of The Case for Christian Nationalism. He was born and raised in Napa, California and currently lives in North Carolina with his wife and four children.